00:00:03 Amy Li: It’s 1 o’clock.
00:00:04 Amy Li: Welcome back! I hope you had a great program fair experience and college fair experience, and this is our very first panel session. What’s the topic, right?
00:00:17 Amy Li: How international applicants should adjust their application strategies, or should they adjust at all? This is a big and important topic for international students, obviously, especially at this time.
00:00:32 Amy Li: But at the same time, I do want to call on the U.S. students to stay on as well for this panel.
00:00:38 Amy Li: because the changes around international students may also have an impact on the U.S. college applicants, too, so we’ll cover that in this conversation. Now, it’s my honor to introduce our panelists, Bruce and Julie. First, Bruce.
00:00:56 Amy Li: Bruce Hammond is, the vice president of Qinlan School. Before that, he helped to found many international schools, including Tsinghua International School in China. Prior to that.
00:01:11 Amy Li: Bruce was a teacher and administrator in the U.S, independent… U.S. in the U.S. Independent Private Schools.
00:01:20 Amy Li: He was also the managing director of the Fisk Guide to Colleges, and is the co-author of four books in the Fisk series. So, welcome, Bruce. We have a live Wikipedia of colleges sitting with us. Welcome.
00:01:41 Amy Li: Mrs. Julie Falbo, she’s a very experienced, educator. Julie has taught at the elementary, middle, and, AP level of high schools, and led service learning trips
00:01:57 Amy Li: in Ecuador, Nicaragua, and the U.S. Now, Julie is a college counselor at the American Nicaraguan School. She empowers students to navigate the application process with the confidence
00:02:14 Amy Li: while fostering an inclusive, supportive environment for academic and personal growth to reach their future goals. And remember, our theme is always related to the future for our high school students.
00:02:27 Amy Li: So, dear audience, let’s, dive right in. Meanwhile, do prepare your questions, okay? When the Q&A session opens, you should get your questions in. Okay, first, just a quick
00:02:44 Amy Li: finding that I’d like to share from the survey that we… Pioneer Academics casted, in July this year. We interviewed, 3… over 300, Pioneer students.
00:02:59 Amy Li: They’re all international students, in this survey included. these students are the most committed, are the most ambitious international, you know, students. They all are on the track.
00:03:13 Amy Li: of going to colleges. So their responses are quite, indicative, right? So one of the findings is 91% of all these respondents
00:03:25 Amy Li: clearly tell us that they still plan to study in the U.S,
00:03:29 Amy Li: At the same time, 62% of them expressed they’re really concerned about studying in the U.S. for political and safety reasons. I want to invite our
00:03:44 Amy Li: panelists to share the kind of VAP that you pick up locally from your school, from your student, or from your region. Is it consistent with the findings of this report?
00:03:57 Amy Li: I will first invite, Bruce to share your insight.
00:04:03 Bruce G. Hammond: Great, thanks so much, Amy. The spring was a rollercoaster out here in China and Asia, with daily geopolitical
00:04:14 Bruce G. Hammond: Tremors, earthquakes, shall we say. And, that was really a period of high anxiety, and it’s been interesting to see how things have calmed just a little bit, almost like, quote, getting back to normal.
00:04:29 Bruce G. Hammond: I would say that, though, a permanent outcome is summarized in one word, and that would be multi-destination. Students are hedging their bets, they’re not only going to apply to the United States, as they might, many of them, 5 or 10 years ago. So, it’s a new world we’re entering, and a world
00:04:53 Bruce G. Hammond: world of uncertainty, but I think as the survey showed, the resilience of the interest in the United States is still proving to be very, very strong, maybe stronger than people like me would have thought, before this
00:05:10 Bruce G. Hammond: instability. So, let’s hope that, the calmer seas, prevail here going forward.
00:05:17 Amy Li: Agreed. Julie, do you want to share your side of the world?
00:05:22 Julie Falbo: Yeah, so I currently work with 61 seniors, and of those seniors, 84% of them have the United States on their list.
00:05:32 Julie Falbo: Some of those students are also U.S. citizens, so that’s important to take into account, but the U.S.
00:05:38 Julie Falbo: continues to be a top destination. And again, we’re in Latin America, we’re a little bit closer to the U.S, many of our students do have family in the U.S, so that’s a draw, but, you know, the academic rigor that the institutions offer in the United States continues to be a huge draw for our students, so…
00:05:57 Julie Falbo: As what Bruce mentioned, more students are adding other countries to their list, especially if they are not U.S. citizens, and I encourage that, actually, but the United States continues to be a top destination for our students of where they want to go to college.
00:06:15 Amy Li: Yeah, that’s very interesting, like, actually, the, in, in the, I think, school level, that you have, you have seen, it’s really consistent with.
00:06:28 Amy Li: this survey, of the data coming back. The, it’s very interesting, since you mentioned the multi-destination. In the survey, we do have 29% of the respondents.
00:06:44 Amy Li: Express that they’re leaning to shift, their preferred destination, meaning
00:06:52 Amy Li: kind of leaning to shift away from the U.S.
00:06:57 Amy Li: But not necessarily decided yet. So that’s, I think, very much in line with what you have talked about, that they apply multiple, and then let’s see what the situation is in the future, and what kind of offers they get, right? And Julie mentioned that you actually encourage that.
00:07:14 Amy Li: So then my next question, on behalf of the students and parents, is if I, you know, I’m an international applicant, under what circumstance should I do multinational, application? Because each country then adds on the workload, maybe the cost.
00:07:31 Amy Li: So, can you share that? I will also have Bruce go first.
00:07:38 Bruce G. Hammond: Well, you know, it’s just, it’s a more complicated world now, and really, counselors are at a loss in this world. That’s one thing, too, that we really feel, because counselors and administrators, principals, are used to having the answers. And 5 or 10 years ago, we could really speak with a lot of confidence, and reassure families, and encourage
00:08:03 Bruce G. Hammond: them to.
00:08:04 Bruce G. Hammond: narrow down their choices, and, you know, you don’t need to apply to 20 universities and colleges, you know, you can focus, you can be reasonable in your choices, but now, we really are in a new world. And, it seems to have calmed down a little bit, you know, from the China and Asia perspective, the visa process, for instance, was really very smooth.
00:08:27 Bruce G. Hammond: this, this, summer. We… it’s almost really a normal year, so…
00:08:34 Bruce G. Hammond: Numbers-wise, the numbers from China in particular have been declining because of mainly, but not totally because of geopolitics. But there hasn’t been a huge change, and things were relatively smooth. Will that prevail in the future? I’m not sure. But as we get younger and younger in the students, if you had been surveying middle
00:08:58 Bruce G. Hammond: school students. I think you might have seen more of a change, and so it takes some time for this to ripple through the system, but the advice is still the same, to try to be intentional, but now it may be to…
00:09:15 Bruce G. Hammond: to investigate more than one country, and you’re absolutely right that that’s more complicated, it can be more money at times, depending on, on your situation.
00:09:29 Bruce G. Hammond: It’s a more complicated world we live in, and there’s nothing we can do to change that.
00:09:34 Amy Li: I totally agree. Julie?
00:09:37 Julie Falbo: I think one of the answers that we have to give a lot to questions, like what you just asked, is it depends, and I know that’s a very frustrating answer. But, you know, should students apply to other countries, it depends. You know, if they’re a U.S. citizen, they’re probably… they’re okay with the U.S. If they’re international.
00:09:54 Julie Falbo: Again, one of the reasons why I recommend perhaps looking at other countries is while the visa process ended up smoothly in the end, like what Bruce said, most of our students did get their visas, we had a three-week
00:10:07 Julie Falbo: scare where there was just a freeze on visas, and again, the government was figuring out their new system for vetting social media. But I remember a student was going to the embassy, went to their appointment, and just said.
00:10:24 Julie Falbo: sorry, you can’t come. And so… and that, you know, we just had to wait for 3 weeks, and so that’s the not knowing of…
00:10:33 Julie Falbo: okay, are we gonna be okay? Like, is this gonna happen? You know, some people were confident in the system and were okay waiting. Some really felt like, no, I need to pivot now, and I’m not sure what’s gonna happen, and I need a plan B, C, and D. And so, I think if the more we can be prepared that
00:10:51 Julie Falbo: we don’t know if there are going to be different changes in the rules and regulations of, you know, going to university in the United States, you know, just of how we’ve seen certain changes that have happened. So, I just think being ready
00:11:07 Julie Falbo: is… is, is positive. I do think, as Bruce mentioned, we’re… we don’t… we don’t know what… what the future holds, and I think as… knowing about additional opportunities that are out there just can be an added benefit to the student.
00:11:23 Amy Li: Absolutely. Yeah, I got it. It’s just difficult for everyone, right? for staying with this multi…
00:11:32 Amy Li: country destination topic for a little bit. I’d like to, you know, to, to check back. Say, if I am a parent, right, I have, I, I… So, do you see that
00:11:48 Amy Li: it may be related more to the kind of major that my kids want to pursue, right? If it’s STEM,
00:11:55 Amy Li: Does that mean that visa process may be more risky? Or other majors that, you know, should allow you to be more focused? Do you see the correlation between the major and then those kind of strategies?
00:12:10 Amy Li: For your students.
00:12:13 Bruce G. Hammond: I guess I can answer from the point of view of China, where it’s the most sensitive, and I’m working almost exclusively with Chinese citizens. And so, the concern about undergraduate visa is still largely theoretical, hasn’t really hit us yet.
00:12:29 Bruce G. Hammond: Where that comes into play, though, is like on, let’s say, let’s say there’s an internship opportunity that might be in a sensitive area, for instance. Some of those programs and some of those add-ons might be denied to students from here, and perhaps to international students generally, based on their not being U.S. citizens.
00:12:52 Bruce G. Hammond: Based on the U.S. government having a more narrow definition than it used to about who would be appropriate for certain opportunities that, programs that might feed, feed government service, and so forth. And another thing to throw out is students should realize, as we talk about multi-destination, that the U.S. really is a global outlier in terms of our structure of
00:13:17 Bruce G. Hammond: education. It’s the so-called liberal arts model, where you can be undecided, you know, you come your first year, you might even have to declare a major. Most of the rest of the world is subject matter based, where you choose a particular subject that you want to apply for, and in some cases, that’s the only thing that you study for maybe a shorter time, maybe three
00:13:42 Bruce G. Hammond: three years in a number of countries that are influenced by the United Kingdom. So, all of that means that you’ve got to know earlier what you want to focus on, and there’s much less flexibility and a much less holistic view of education.
00:13:58 Amy Li: I love it, yeah. I totally agree. The, the liberal arts track is really, I think, the crown jewel of college education. Anyway, so Julie, do you want to pick up on this topic?
00:14:15 Julie Falbo: The only thing I want to add is just kind of once they’re in the United States and then staying on afterwards, if they are in… a student is in a STEM field, then they can have the potential of staying longer in the United States. So, to be, working for 3 years before an employer would need to sponsor them to stay on longer, versus if they are not in a major that is STEM-related.
00:14:40 Julie Falbo: That an international student would potentially only just get one year, and so I think that is…
00:14:46 Julie Falbo: where a draw is for a lot of students, then, to engage… get… to pursue a major in the STEM field. And so that’s just something they think about, too, is afterwards, what happens after I get my degree, and then how long can I then stay in the United States? So that’s just another thing students are also thinking about.
00:15:04 Amy Li: Cool. Is it fair to say, like, because, it seems that overall, I saw some of, some data, like, in the US, there are so many, fewer visas granted for the international students in the past.
00:15:20 Amy Li: past year. Would it be fair to say that the STEM tract, majors may not have impacted negatively to the undergrad?
00:15:31 Amy Li: international students the same way as to maybe graduate and PhD students, based on your experience working with students coming here for the undergrad studies, is a fair kind of statement, or a fair conclusion?
00:15:48 Bruce G. Hammond: I think so, in terms of visa denial. You still see the isolated case, as Julie mentioned, but we haven’t seen wholesale denials based on subject matter that the student studies, but there’s more and more discussion about that as a possibility. Going forward. I would say that’s one of the uncertainties that could easily pop up.
00:16:12 Bruce G. Hammond: in this political climate at any time, become a much… a dramatically different, situation based on, well, let’s say, the whims of, of whoever’s deciding. So, that’s a concern. Julie’s also quite right in saying that I think globally, consideration of, can I stay and work afterwards
00:16:37 Bruce G. Hammond: as an international, as a non-citizen, more important consideration than ever before, and I think countries that are interested in international students are going to be competing, and have been competing, with offering that opportunity, and that’s something that students, perhaps more now than 10 years ago, need to factor in when they’re considering where to go.
00:17:00 Julie Falbo: And I think asking… I’m sorry, just, like, when they’re going off of factoring where to go, just how available are there for internships and for an international student, you know, because of this reality, like, what types of opportunities are available? Those are good things for international students to ask.
00:17:19 Julie Falbo: At their… the institutions that they’re interested in applying to.
00:17:23 Amy Li: Totally. My last question related to the multi-destination, because it is definitely a big, strong trend.
00:17:32 Amy Li: what are some of the other countries besides the U.S?
00:17:36 Amy Li: Would you suggest to the international applicants to consider?
00:17:42 Julie Falbo: I mean, I think that’s very regionally based. For me, from our students in Latin America, a lot of them look at Spain because, again, of the language. So… and actually, we had an increase of a lot of our students going to Spain.
00:17:56 Julie Falbo: This past year. Canada is another place that our students apply to, and then more of them are also looking regionally, you know, Costa Rica. Some end up staying in Nicaragua, kind of, as Bruce mentioned, it depends on what they want to study. If they’re going to study medical school, you know, they want to become a doctor, it makes more sense to kind of stay in the country or stay in Latin America.
00:18:20 Julie Falbo: So, more Latin American students are thinking more about what are some of the regional opportunities, where they can pursue their higher education goals.
00:18:30 Amy Li: Thank you. Bruce?
00:18:33 Bruce G. Hammond: Yeah, I think worldwide, I think continental Europe is an area of growth. They’ve had some hiccups. For instance, the Netherlands had been a great place, but then they have a housing crisis that is causing difficulties. So it’s hit or miss based on the country, but
00:18:56 Bruce G. Hammond: In our part of the world, Hong Kong, part of China, but somewhat distinct, being a special administrative region, has undergone some changes and is of interest to a wider spectrum of students, or a different spectrum than it used to be. Japan, interestingly, with its,
00:19:20 Bruce G. Hammond: Birth dearth. It’s demographic cliff.
00:19:23 Bruce G. Hammond: of domestic students has become very active in recruiting students to English language programs. So, of course, Down Under, Australia and New Zealand have always been there, and are still there as an interesting choice. So those are some of the places in Asia, but it really does depend on the student, where they’re comfortable, where they may have ties, what their
00:19:48 Bruce G. Hammond: program is… and again, the fact that you really have to make a choice about what you want to study. Often, a 3-year degree versus 4-year degree is something to consider as well.
00:20:03 Amy Li: Thank you, this is great insight. So, I guess…
00:20:07 Amy Li: The current trend, may have a silver lining that really forced the counselors
00:20:14 Amy Li: to go more global, and the students also, can be more globally, strategically minded. And also, for the first time, we also welcomed, a university from Australia,
00:20:30 Amy Li: they just attended the college affair, and it attracts a lot of attention. So, great. We have 10 minutes left. I’d like to open up for the audience to ask questions, because during our talk, I already see a lot of hand being raised.
00:20:48 Amy Li: So I’m picking the questions. So, this is,
00:20:56 Amy Li: This is a question, expressing some frustration finding the volunteering programs, as well as finding the ways to show the leadership. Do you think… are there any ways that this student can do it online?
00:21:15 Bruce G. Hammond: So you’re talking about building, an application, and finding opportunities, to… to volunteer?
00:21:25 Amy Li: I believe so.
00:21:26 Bruce G. Hammond: Yeah, the big thing for me is, if I had, two words of advice, it would be to look local.
00:21:32 Bruce G. Hammond: You can always pay a lot of money to go to an exotic place and save poor people on some remote village, and often that costs a pretty penny. But to plug into someone else’s program and be led around by adults is a bit less interesting, I think, to admission people than the person
00:21:56 Bruce G. Hammond: contributing to their own community, and organizing on their own, perhaps, having their own vision. Obviously, it may be challenging for a high school student to work completely alone, but finding organizations, finding a place where the student can be a leader, can initiate, as opposed to paying a lot of money for a
00:22:21 Bruce G. Hammond: Program, would be my thought.
00:22:24 Julie Falbo: And I think you can even look in your own school. We have so many opportunities where students, you know, can… I mean, I’m not sure of the context, but many international schools, you know, are multi-grade, and so we have students that are helping in elementary classrooms with reading, or we have students supporting with a recycling program, so I think
00:22:43 Julie Falbo: Going off of your point of being local, that just… you can even look in what are some issues in your school community that you feel you can make an impact, and start there.
00:22:55 Bruce G. Hammond: Keep in mind that the admission people are building a community, and so those people who make a contribution to their community are the ones who look good.
00:23:06 Amy Li: Great. We have a lot of questions, so I’m going to try to ask as many as possible. This is a student from Pakistan. He has heard that there is limited access to aerospace labs.
00:23:22 Amy Li: For international aerospace engineering students. I guess that’s something that he wants to be majored in. And he heard that it’s getting harder to get in internships or opportunities in this space.
00:23:39 Amy Li: He likes to understand, if you have heard anything similar, or can you conform something, like that?
00:23:47 Julie Falbo: Bruce, I’ll let you take that one.
00:23:50 Bruce G. Hammond: I would take the counselor’s role and say that I would… if the student were with me, I would sit down and say, you know what? I haven’t heard anything specific about that. Let’s sit down and find out. Let’s do some searching. And I think a lot of students will find that with a few hours of searching, they’re going to know as much or more as their counselor knows.
00:24:15 Bruce G. Hammond: We just kind of know where to get the information. I do think in a climate of rising nationalism around the world, restrictions are probably growing on a lot of these programs based on nationality, I would say. So I think that may be one factor that the student is bumping up against. Aerospace.
00:24:38 Bruce G. Hammond: is a more sensitive, often military-related field, so perhaps more difficult as an international to do than it was a few years ago, but I would sit you right down beside me if the student were mine, and we could research it together, and the goal would be for the student to know more than I did, and it wouldn’t take
00:25:02 Bruce G. Hammond: more than a few minutes before the student would know more than I did.
00:25:07 Amy Li: I like that approach. This… oh, sorry. So this is a student, asking about dual citizenship.
00:25:17 Amy Li: The student, lives in Greece, but has dual citizenship, Greek and American. Any specific, suggestions how she should present, herself or himself in the college application?
00:25:33 Julie Falbo: I mean, I think in the… when they’re using the common application, then they put both, you know, whatever nationality or whatever passports that they hold, and so they would put that they have their dual citizenship of…
00:25:47 Julie Falbo: of both, you know, both passports that they would put. I think in terms of what they want to write about, or in their essay, or the supplements, I mean, I think a lot of that can… is… comes from just admission officers want to know who they are, so it… if… if…
00:26:02 Julie Falbo: they particularly identify with one culture over the other. They can talk about that. If they don’t want to talk about their identity at all, they don’t have to. I think it’s just…
00:26:12 Julie Falbo: they do end up reporting on the Common App, you know, what citizenships that they do hold.
00:26:17 Julie Falbo: So it’s not like they choose one over the other.
00:26:21 Amy Li: Cool. Well, we got a lot of questions, but some of the questions may not necessarily
00:26:26 Amy Li: tightly related to being the international, so I’m gonna pick some of the ones that are representative. You know, how to differentiate, how to make themselves stand out in the college application process is still… there are quite a couple of questions similar to this. So,
00:26:46 Amy Li: in general, like, this is a… I think this is a big question, but I can still ask, because it’s so representative, but, like, students ask, how to stand out in your, college application, or through your college essay.
00:27:00 Amy Li: And one particularly asked, does athletic performance can help more to be… to make a unique applicant?
00:27:08 Amy Li: Or can someone with a good athletic performance, play D1 at college? So, I guess it’s all related to how to make themselves stand out.
00:27:22 Bruce G. Hammond: I would say stand out by being yourself. It’s really hard in this process to be authentic and to have your true voice, and if you master having your true voice, you will stand out, because
00:27:36 Bruce G. Hammond: a lot of people fail at that and sound contrived, sound like they’re trying to make up something that they think someone else wants to hear, and they are unable to be authentic. And so, that would be my first thought. Athletics, that’s a tough one. I would say overall,
00:27:57 Bruce G. Hammond: Dreams of, let’s say Division I in particular, this is, you know, almost professional. And internationally, it’s extraordinarily difficult, because most countries don’t have the
00:28:10 Bruce G. Hammond: athletic complex that the U.S. does, so I’d say that the dream of athletic, participation, even at Division III, people think, oh, well, Division I, that’s the… that’s the big time, I’ll do Division III. Well, Division III is pretty darn competitive, so…
00:28:28 Bruce G. Hammond: I would say the athletic’s probably not the most promising, area, as opposed to some others.
00:28:34 Julie Falbo: And I think going with that of being yourself, I think it’s figuring out what…
00:28:40 Julie Falbo: who you are, and then if, you know, what impact have you made in your school community, and then what do you want to do? What impact can you make in your future community? What college that you’re going to end at, or in your future career? I think it’s just doing that self-exploration, and I think it’s so hard, and I see that in my…
00:29:00 Julie Falbo: Seniors, where it’s…
00:29:01 Julie Falbo: people feel this competitiveness, or they feel there’s so… this anxiety, but it’s like, if you can come back to who you really are, I mean, they’re all so unique and different in what they want to do, that if they can really internalize and cap… tap into that, that is what’s going to stand out in their application.
00:29:22 Amy Li: Totally. Well, I… there’s so many questions, I will still probably let in one more question, even though we’re very tight on time, because this looks like a student, looking at, like, one of the being underserved students, asking.
00:29:41 Amy Li: besides the U.S, which university in what country may have the more chances of getting need-based scholarships, or, you know, that… so I think that’s important to address, so one of you can feel free to address
00:29:58 Amy Li: That question.
00:30:01 Bruce G. Hammond: I’ll go Eastern Europe. There’s some real bargains there. You have to be brave to go there. That’s where I’ve seen the most accessible scholarships that are large. The more common destinations are going to be the more expensive ones and the more competitive ones.
00:30:18 Amy Li: Fantastic, great insight. Thank you so much. Bruce especially, it’s 1.30 a.m. your time. Thank you again for so dedicated to helping the students around the globe. Yeah, please, for the rest of you, I know there are a lot of questions related to how to stand out in your
00:30:37 Amy Li: College application, and keep the true voice of yourself.
00:30:42 Amy Li: please go to the next session, because that’s exactly what they are going to address. So, thank you again, Bruce and Julie. It’s wonderful hosting this together with you. Thank you, everyone. Please go to the next session. Bye.
00:30:56 Julie Falbo: Thank you.
00:30:57 Bruce G. Hammond: Thank you.
00:30:58 Julie Falbo: Bye.
00:31:03 Bruce G. Hammond: Thank you very much.
00:31:04 Amy Li: Thank you! Wow, so Bruce, this, yeah, that’s a huge heart. Thank you a lot, and thank you, again, Julie. We are going to, send a small little trophy afterwards for all our, panel contributors.
00:31:19 Amy Li: Without you, we won’t be able to deliver all these great insights. And if you look at the question, I don’t know if you can see the questions.
00:31:27 Amy Li: that the students truly need it. You are really helping, helping a lot of students.
00:31:34 Julie Falbo: Well, thank you, and Bruce, 1.30 a.m, that’s incredible!
00:31:38 Amy Li: And he agreed like that.
00:31:40 Bruce G. Hammond: Where else do I have to go on a Saturday night?
00:31:42 Julie Falbo: Well, I… I hope to stay in touch. It’s great.
00:31:45 Bruce G. Hammond: Yeah.
00:31:46 Julie Falbo: insight, I really do appreciate.
00:31:48 Bruce G. Hammond: Yeah, a lot of fun. Thank you so much. Yeah, maybe I’ll… you ever, maybe International ACAC some year?
00:31:55 Julie Falbo: Yes, I… Yeah, I was just there, and I’m gonna… I’m hoping to go to Pittsburgh next year.
00:32:01 Bruce G. Hammond: Great. Let’s look for each other, then.
00:32:03 Julie Falbo: Oh, perfect!
00:32:04 Amy Li: I will set up an email, feel free to, you know, to stay connected through email, and I’ll see you this year, I probably won’t make it to Nagak, so I’ll see you in person.
00:32:16 Bruce G. Hammond: Oh, yeah, I’ll be at NACAC, so, yeah, yeah. It’s unusual that I go. It’s a bad time of year for…
00:32:21 Amy Li: School people, but, you know.
00:32:24 Julie Falbo: Well, thank you, Amy, for setting this up. This is great.
00:32:27 Bruce G. Hammond: Thank you.
00:32:28 Julie Falbo: Right, look forward to more, yeah. Yes, for sure.
00:32:31 Amy Li: Thank you again. Have a great weekend.
00:32:33 Bruce G. Hammond: Me too.
00:32:34 Julie Falbo: Bye!
00:32:34 Amy Li: Bye!
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