Summary of “Back to the Future” Session
Daniel Boulos, Academic Relations Specialist for Pioneer, introduced the theme of the session: how educators can think through the changes that are happening today, and how best to support students in preparing for the future. The impetus for the panel, he said, was the rapid rise of generative AI tools like ChatGPT. The panelists were Sascha Goluboff, Professor of Cultural Anthropology and Director of the Office of Community Based Learning at Washington and LeeUniversity, and Bruce Hammond, Vice Principal at the Tsinglan School in Dongguan, China.
Boulos first asked the panelists whether today’s rapid changes are truly unprecedented, and how we might need to change to adapt to the new realities. Hammond responded that “too often, schools prepare students for the past, not the future.” This is a compelling moment, if not unique, and it emphasizes the need for “inquiry learning” in middle and high school, rather than waiting for college and university. Goluboff added that it is important for university professors to understand and communicate that they are teaching skills transferable to the job market, not just the content of a discipline.
Boulos followed up by asking how Goluboff did this in her own discipline of anthropology. She summarized, “anthropology is about making the strange familiar and the familiar strange,” and emphasized that in a world in which diversity is key, being able to move back and forth between perspectives is “super important in today's workforce.” Practical skills include connecting with others through interviewing, and distilling large amounts of material gathered through research into “a story that you want to tell.” Hammond added that the process of engaging in dialogue with others involves gaining “a richer and deeper understanding,” learning for the future rather than for a test. “When you go out into the real world, you will never take a test,” he noted.
Concerning the role of generative AI in education, Goluboff began, “what makes us human is that we use tools.” The question is whether it is enhancing our ability to get things done. Both panelists emphasized that AI can help with practical tasks like finding or designing a study guide. However, it cannot think, and it is important to fact-check its findings and to remember that it was designed by humans and is therefore biased. It can provide information; we decide what to do with the information.
A student participant who learns everything easily without guidance wondered if university is really necessary for a budding scientist. Hammond pointed out that research is a collaborative process, and Goluboff added that conversations with peers further both understanding and curiosity. Another student wondered how to set limits when using AI, saying it was easy just to cut and paste everything. Goluboff advised paying close attention to the actual assignment, to avoid being sidetracked by too much information. A final question led to the advice that if you are clear about your own values, identity, and voice, you can stay true to yourself and find technology a useful tool.
00:00:00 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): All right! Hello, everybody! Welcome to our first panel discussion of the day. I’m pleased to be moderating this panel with Bruce Hammond and Sasha Goluboff. Today’s panel, this panel Back to the Future, we will be discussing how educators can think through all the changes that are, you know, happening today, and think about how best to support our students in preparing them for tomorrow that seems as though, is getting increasingly difficult to envision. What that tomorrow is going to look like with the, you know, the advent of all these technologies, perhaps best represented by the way in which ChatGPT burst onto the, onto the scene in the last year. So, we’ll talk a little bit about that but the bigger question we’re really grappling with is, you know, what are the things we need to think about as we are preparing students for tomorrow in such a rapidly changing environment.
00:00:50 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): So, our panelists, our first panelist, is Professor Sascha Goluboff. She is a Professor of Cultural Anthropology and Director of the Office of Community-Based Learning at Washington & Lee University. Bruce Hammond is the vice principal at the Tsinglan School in Dongguan, in South China. So, we are delighted to have both of them joining us today. We’ve got about a half hour for this conversation, so I think we should just dive into the discussion and get it going.
00:01:20 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): So, here we go. So, one of the impetuses for this particular panel was the rapid rise of generative tools like, generative AI tools like ChatGPT. I mean, you may remember when it burst onto the scene about a year ago. What I remember is panic across academia about this, this new, I think, as it was being seen in the moment it was, it was widely viewed as a threat to academic integrity without initially, a whole lot of thought about the possible you know, potential of the of the technology and we’ll talk specifically about ChatGPT in a few minutes, but I wanted to start a little broader. And so my first question is in 2 parts. And I’d love to hear from both of you on this. And so, the first part is What do you think like based on your role as educators, what do you consider to be some of the most important questions or issues that we need to consider as we’re adjusting to some of the significant changes we’re seeing in what seems to be a moment of very rapid change.
00:02:31 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): And when I talk about that rapid change, I’m also not talking just exclusively about technology. I mean, there are, there are so many other things that are changing in the landscape that impact technology from, you know the increasing political polarization in the country, politicization of the educational system. So, you know think about what are some of those impacts that you think are important and how they, you know effect the way we’re preparing our students.
00:02:57 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): And then my second part, the second part of that question is, is this moment truly a unique moment in terms of you know, the prospect of major change, fundamentally changing the way we need to think about the way we educate students. Now, I as someone who’s trained as a historian, I am always very suspicious of words like unprecedented, because in my experience, you know, most things that are said to be unprecedented, really aren’t. I mean, they may be a little different. But my question is, from your perspective have you seen moments like this before where new advances in technology, new policies came onto the scene and you know threatened or perhaps suggested that we might need to, you know, fundamentally change the way we do things. And what might we learn from those things?
00:03:49 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): So, Bruce, I’ll start with you on this question. If you’d like to talk about, you know, from your perspective as an educator, what do you think are some of the most important challenges or issues that we need to think about and is this, you know, is this moment that we’re talking about this moment of rapid, transformative changes, is it really a unique thing, haven’t been here before? Alright! Well, I think too often. Schools prepare students for the past, not the future. The way we go about learning bodies of knowledge that are from the past, and we can get into this a little more. Is this a unique moment?
00:04:29 Bruce G. Hammond (he/him/his): I think maybe it is, but it’s not unique in the sense that the case to be made for what we call inquiry learning which it’s research, it’s everything that Pioneer does. It’s what college and university professors do and what graduate students do, and it’s what kindergartners do. But it is too often not what high school students do, and middle school students. And so, I think it’ll be interesting to see, because this is a compelling moment, and it crystallizes how our education system is to a significant degree out of step with the priorities for the future. But they’re very powerful reasons why our way of doing things has persisted in the past. And so that’s the key question, will this build momentum to actually reform and do things differently, or we going to have a little bit of running around and commotion. And then in the end not much changes. I think the jury is out on that.
00:05:33 Sascha Goluboff (She/Her): I want to add in on that. Thanks for bringing it up, Bruce. I think that some of the conversations I’ve been involved in recently are how we can help our students prepare for jobs. And so it’s interesting. So, we have you know, how do we prepare high school students for college? You know how do then, how do we prepare the college students for jobs? Are we doing a good job doing that?
00:05:54 Sascha Goluboff (She/Her): And so, one of the things that’s come up recently is people turning away from higher education, thinking it’s not worthwhile whether that be for political reasons or just, let’s just get into the professions. What are they teaching us, right? And so, making it explicit for students to understand the skills they’re learning in the classroom can be transferable to job skills, but also changing the mindset of the professors. I’m in a conversation right now with colleagues about how do we do that? How do we get to see that, get professors to see that they’re not just teaching the discipline right sort of, Bruce was saying, like the stuff that we learn in graduate school. But they’re actually teaching skills that can be transferable, whether that’s critical thinking or group work,
00:06:37 Sascha Goluboff (She/Her): whereas, as we’re saying, inquiry based research and learning that can that can help students thrive after they get out of the university. And so, I think there needs to be a mindset change, because you can fall back and say well, higher institutions of education have been around forever, but what are they doing? What are the population they are serving? You know, who’s going to these places. Why invest all this money when you might come out with debt? Right? And so, it’s just not an easy go right away to college, but really getting people to think why they’re doing it. And I think that colleges need to. And they’re moving to this direction, making a case for themselves, not just assuming everybody’s going to go to college, if they can have the, if they have the means to do so.
00:07:19 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): Yeah, I think that’s a terrific point. And I was actually just in preparing for this panel I was talking to one of my colleagues here at Pioneer, and one of the things I thought I brought up is that a lot of college professors are actually resistant to the notion that their role is to prepare students for a job market, you know, because their view is like my role as the professor is to what you said, teach the discipline, right? So yeah, those are some, some great points.
00:07:45 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): Sasha. I wonder if you might talk about from your own perspective as you know, in your own, in your own discipline. Right? Anthropology. What are some of the ways in which you know you make the case to the, to the students. And you know, for the students and parents watching today, right. Like, what are you, why should their students register for that anthropology class? How like, what are the skills they’re going to glean in that anthropology class? And how are those skills going to prepare them for the real world like, I know your research concentration for Pioneer actually have students going out, and I think was interviews oral histories that they were gathering. So, I mean,
00:08:17 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): I think there’s a very clear case to be made for their some fundamental skills, not just about inquiry, but also just about, you know, communication and persuasion and such. So, if you want to talk about that, and yeah.
00:08:27 Sascha Goluboff (She/Her): Sure, I mean, so anthropology is a big field and basically anything has to do with what it means to be human sort of covers that. Whether it’s biological anthropology, looking at human evolution, or it’s language and culture, archeology and just sort of everyday lives. But what I like to tell people is, if I have to be like in a cocktail party, if I have to summarize her, you know, a pitch on the elevator, I would say that anthropology is about making the strange familiar, and the familiar strange.
00:08:53 Sascha Goluboff (She/Her): So, figuring out, seeing that other people do things different from you, whether that be your, your, your small family group, or your national group, or your religious group however it is, they do things differently. And then, after a while, realizing why and the logics behind it, then you can say, Oh, well, that doesn’t seem so strange anymore. And then taking that, reflecting back on yourself and saying, why do we do things we do? You know, what is so natural and normal about that?
00:09:17 Sascha Goluboff (She/Her): So, it’s that back and forth of moving between perspectives that’s super important in today’s workforce. I mean, if you look at career readiness goals across the board, working in diversity is number one, right? So, how do we, and so getting to think about, how do we think beyond ourselves, understand others and the prospects rethink who we are is important. Also, the notion of empathy, understanding others not just sympathizing with others like, Oh, I’m better, but actually getting on the same, you know, sort of the same wavelength as other people, and trying to figure out why sort of understanding what they’re going through for interest in that.
00:09:57 Sascha Goluboff (She/Her): I also think that you know, anthropology is, I always tell my students like a tool in your toolbox of understanding, right? So, political science is very much a top down approach, looking at how governments form and what how governments work, and anthropology is the bottom up. Like you start with the people, what they’re doing and trying to understand their motivations and from that you get sort of a larger perspective and it’s sort of that micro perspective that can lean up to like a macro, larger world view.
00:10:24 Sascha Goluboff (She/Her): So, being able to take on and off these like glasses of lenses of perspective I think are really important for students as they move forward. And I tried really hard in my anthropology courses to get that across to them that they’re going to leave the class with, a better tool in their toolbox and through all the skills that we practice, whether it’s connecting with folks interviewing or taking a big amount of information, Bruce sure knows of inquiry, doing some research, looking at what’s literature that’s been written, and then distilling it down into its key elements and then reforming that into a story that you want to tell, these are great skills to have in any job set. So, that’s just a brief overview.
00:11:07 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): Well, excellent. Thank you.
00:11:09 Bruce G. Hammond (he/him/his): Yeah. I like to chime in on that. And it’s so important the process. What are students doing? And so, a student could have a lecture class where a teacher goes over you know, history in the last 50 years and you, you all know, you learn about different political, social events and could be social history.
00:11:32 Bruce G. Hammond (he/him/his): But it’s the process. On the other hand, you’ve got, what are you doing when you’re doing oral history? Well, you need some background. You got to do some research for sure. But you’re formulating questions. You’re active, engaging in dialogue with people, you’re realizing in the course of a conversation, wait a minute, I’m not prepared for this.
00:11:55 Bruce G. Hammond (he/him/his): I, this is totally different than what I thought it was, and then, at a certain point you come out with a much richer and deeper understanding and so that is, that’s inquiry. That is learning about some, and it’s the past, it’s history. But still, that’s the process that can be applied to the process of learning for the future as opposed to simply learning about the past and taking test over what happened previously.
00:12:29 Sascha Goluboff (She/Her): Yeah, if I could add to that, too. I think that one of the things that really excites me about teaching a Pioneer class is like the students come up with their ideas they want to research. And their and I have them go look at what other research has been done, and I tell them, like, you might have this idea, but you need to insert it into a larger conversation. A larger conversation is happening about whatever idea it is and their research done. And you’re going to add into the conversation. So, you need to know what that conversation is. You need to know what your perspective is to add into it and they go off and they do the research. And I really try to, you know, they look back on their hypotheses they have based on what research been done already, and it’s the point where they find something that they didn’t expect. I say, that is the important point. Let’s get into that. What did you not expect to find. Why did you find it? And how are you going to deal with that?
00:13:18 Sascha Goluboff (She/Her): Because learning and working with others is you’ve, you have this sort of cognitive dissonance where your expectations aren’t met, and that’s what you really have to dig into and that’s your contribution to get into that, and explain and figure out why this happened the way it did, or what I found that wasn’t expected. And Link, and that’s your contribution to the conversation, and so getting students to see that it’s not rote memorization that’s learning it is that uncomfortableness when you find yourself in a difficult situation or unexpected situation, how do you handle that? How does that lead you to a higher understanding and higher learning and experience and sharing that with others.
00:13:56 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): I have one quick follow up question for Bruce, I think on this this topic of you know the move, the move toward emphasizing inquiry in the curriculum.
00:14:08 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): And Bruce I mean, as someone who values research and you know that’s what I did for a very long time, and now, you know I work for this research, this organization that runs a research program. It’s very clear to me the fundamental importance of inquiry as an educational tool, and the value of it in terms of, you know, moving through the world, whether in school or you know, in the job market. But, I wonder if you might just make that connection a little more explicit for our audience, so why does moving toward inquiry, how might that move toward inquiry benefits students beyond education, Right? How, like, how might you know, I agree 100 percent the importance of process over just rote memorization and such. But why does it matter? Why is inquiries specifically a valuable tool for someone who’s actually going to be going out, you know, from college to the real world right?
00:14:59 Bruce G. Hammond (he/him/his): When you go out into the real world you will never take a test. No one is ever going to hand the paper out and tell you, don’t talk to anyone, you’ve got 30 min to do this, you know. You may begin. You know, black in those circles, or whatever. And so, what we’ve got with a lot of high school education is unfortunately, the priority is on sorting and ranking students figuring out who’s good and who’s not so good. And that drives us to things like multiple choice tests. Sad to say, this is the high school vice principal kind of coming clean and being honest.
00:15:40 Bruce G. Hammond (he/him/his): We’ve got a lot of work to do. And so where are the meaningful activities? Very often in high school they’re in the extra curricular realm, there when you get to manage something you get to be head of the Student Council, or you get to be you get to edit the yearbook, or you do, you do research. And this is the process of work. No, nobody’s going to ask you in the world of work, you know, we got this test next week, and you know, you can’t use your notes. That’s a good one, isn’t it? You can’t use your notes. So, this process that we have for most of mainstream schooling is completely out of step with what students are going to be doing in the next phase of their life.
00:16:24 Bruce G. Hammond (he/him/his): Whereas inquiry is, is very much what students are going to be doing in many jobs and careers. And there I throw in management, I throw in a few other things. But that’s the basic problem that we have as high school educators.
00:16:40 Sascha Goluboff (She/Her): Yeah, I would just add into as Director of Community based learning, one of the things that we do is we connect students and faculty to community partners that have common goals and projects in mind. And so, it’s one thing to come up with an idea of a marketing strategy and in school, you know in your classroom, but then, when you have to pitch it, an actual organization that tells you oh, wait a minute, I’m not liking this. The students go, what do you mean? Well, that’s not what we wanted and then students have to go back and redo it. That’s real-life experience.
00:17:07 Sascha Goluboff (She/Her): They have to be, have to be creative on the fly. It’s not just checking boxes.
00:17:14 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): Excellent. Great. So, I think we probably have time for one, maybe 2 more questions before, I want to see what we have in the Q&A here. But, Sasha, I wanted to ask you your perspective as both an educator in the classroom, but then also as a cultural anthropologist in terms of like your research.
00:17:35 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): You know, a lot of the discourse around generative AI and ChatGPT, it’s invoked the notion of disruptive technology. You know, it’s a term that we bandy about a lot when we’re talking about technological advances that disrupt markets. Right? But as a cultural anthropologist, I would imagine that a disruptive technology like AI probably raises some questions that are a little bit bigger than how it might disrupt markets or industries, and I wonder if I don’t know if any of your actual research has actually gone as actually started thinking about this yet. But I would imagine that you have some thoughts about it from your, you know, your particular disciplinary perspective, and I just wonder if you might talk about what are some of the questions that the advent of tools like generative AI, raising your mind from an anthropological perspective, and how they might be relevant to thinking about how we educate our students.
00:18:28 Sascha Goluboff (She/Her): Yes, I mean, what makes us human is that we use tools. And that’s just, you know, basic sort of physical biological policy. So, it’s just another tool that we use. And the question is, how is it enhancing our humanity? How is it enhancing our ability to get things done or not? And I think that I think where it works well, is when it is a tool.
00:18:52 Sascha Goluboff (She/Her): So, for example, students using chat GPT to like proofread an essay, and not just proof it. But say, what did, where did I go wrong here? Can you tell me, you know, what I need to work on? Or students in like a pre-med class like and they have so much material and they ask, ChatGPT, can you create a study guide for me? So, I can help, so you can help me synthesize so I can learn the material, right? Can you have a research paper? Can you, you know, help me find the resources. But then the idea is that it it’s a tool, it’s to help us get some more. We can’t just rely on it completely. So, the question is checking our facts like going back and checking to make sure the sources actually exist. You know, for example, I think, where we get in trouble with the ChatGPT and other generative AI is that we forget that it’s actually created by humans so that it can be biased, it is biased. Sometimes we think that AI is unbiased or objective, but it’s not. So, how has it been coded, to look at certain things and not other things and we need to fact check it. I think that it’s really going back into, Bruce was saying. We’ve been talking about this generative AI is really going to change the way we teach.
00:20:07 Sascha Goluboff (She/Her): It’s not just okay, memorize these facts because you can find the facts online. You can you find it through generative AI. It’s more about how do you understand the content? How do you being creative with the context? How are you using this? How are you checking it? How are you using it to expand your understanding that’s right. So, we can launch like on the shoulders of giants, right? We can launch higher because we can get all this information quicker. So, the question is great, but what are you going to do with that information? Not just sit on it and rely on it. So, I think it’s, it’s going to change the way that we teach, in the way that we understand what it, enhancing our sense of being human. It’s not just yes, we have the tool but how do we use it to advance ourselves and not just rely on it completely? That’s, that’s what I would say.
00:20:54 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): Great! Aright, you know. I had, you know I had another couple of questions prepared, but I’m actually seeing there are several questions in the Q&A. And so, I’d like to get some of the, I think I’d rather get some of those questions out onto the floor as well because I think we covered much of the ground I thought was important too. But let’s hear some other people’s minds and see if we can respond to that. Okay, so here’s a question from a student. A student says they are a student who loves science and wanted to become a scientist in the future.
00:21:27 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): They find that a great portion of knowledge comes easily for them, and that, they can understand basically anything by working by themselves. So, what is it that a top university or college can give them that they can’t get by themselves, right? What is, so for someone who, acquiring knowledge seem to come you know, just supernaturally to,
00:21:49 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): what can we get, through higher education that they cannot get you know, on their own, no matter how bright or resourceful they may be? Other than the obvious answer of the credential that you may need in order to actually so you know, land a job after you get after you get out. So, I’d love to hear from either one of you on this. I guess I’d first ask is, are you really doing the process that you may be doing the predominant high school process which is to cover bodies of knowledge, and then remember them. But, inquiry is not the predominant way that we do things in high school for a pro, probably for worse, not better.
00:22:32 Bruce G. Hammond (he/him/his): And so, I think, having role models, I think, having colleagues with their own research projects. I think that I don’t know, and here I defer to Sasha but I think that that there’s a different process that that you would have, and in college and university. And I wouldn’t assume that high school is all that similar.
00:22:55 Sascha Goluboff (She/Her): Yeah, I’ll just piggyback off that. I think that you’re going to learn what you do with the knowledge. How do you work in teams with the knowledge? How do you promote your idea, how do you research alongside others? And actually, those little those conversations are, going to push about the knowledge. They are going to push your understanding and get you to be more curious about where to go next. And so, it’s you know, it’s like a hive mentality, you know. You really got to get out there. You got to work with others. And that’s where you’re going to see your creativity and understanding blossom versus sitting alone doing it yourself.
00:23:26 Bruce G. Hammond (he/him/his): And in in natural sciences you’re really in the laboratory and well, maybe I’ll speak out of term. I can remember a principal colleague talking about a major standardized test that has a set group of labs that you have to do. And the outcome of the labs is basically predetermined. So, his comment is, that’s not science. So, if you’re doing the standardized curriculum that where you get 5 not really science, I hate to say it, it is, it has some of the trappings of science. But spending time in a laboratory and I’m you know I’m not an expert on this, but I’ve been, I’ve been there enough to know that it’s a very different process to get in there and define a research goal and then realize that what you’re doing a month later, you realize. Well, nope, can’t do that. Wrong, and trial and error, and all of that, just not the same as what you would do in a high school class, usually.
00:24:37 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): Okay. Let’s see here. There was another question I saw here that I wanted to pull out. So, here’s an interesting AI question from who I, someone I assume is a student and I think it I think, Sasha, it kind of gets back to what you were talking before about the idea of AI as a tool. But, let me just share this discussion in its entirety. Sometimes AI could still help us, for example if I don’t understand the concept, I would ask it to explain it to me. However, sometimes it gets out of hand for me, and they end up copying and pasting everything.
00:25:14 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): How do I find this balance and control the use of AI and I picked this question specifically because II think it, it kind of highlights a number of things, right? How tools like AI can be really valuable educational tools and help students in certain ways. But, there are also limits after which its use can almost short circuit learning, or actually be, be more, you know, do more harm than good. And it seems that you know this this student is having a little bit of difficulty navigating like how to use it as opposed to how to, I don’t want to say how to use it, but how to use it within the proper limits, and I just wonder if either or either of you have any thoughts about when you’re when you’re confronted with tools like this, like, what are some of the things you should be thinking about when you are deploying, deploying them, right? So, this student goes from trying to get a little clarity on something to just copying and pasting everything that that ChatGPT spits out. Here, it depends on the context of the assignment but I know that it just going back to my own experience, usually my assignments it’s really specific about what I expect students to do and what I see them messing up as they start to generalize, and, you know, draw on other sources, and it becomes like this gobbly good mess of just abstract thought and not link to their own line of reasoning, their own argument. And so, you can’t have ChatGPT, create, write an argument for you that’s going to actually conform to what the professor is looking for.
00:26:44 Sascha Goluboff (She/Her): And so, I want to see your line of, the student’s line of argument and thought. And so, when I see that, in that if you just copy and paste that ChatGPT, it’s not your line of thinking. It’s not your thought process. And so, I would say you stop using it when you find that you’re veering off course, you’re getting too generalized and not re, not reacting to the, not meeting the needs of what the paper or essay is asking you to do, because it’s pretty easy from my side to see when that happens. That’s where students have problems.
00:27:13 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): Okay, great. So, I have one, one last question. And this is, this is a deep one. We only have like 2 minutes left so, hope so if you want to answer, talk fast because it’s, you’ll probably have a lot to say about this one because I think it’s a terrific question. I’m a student, I’m not yet in my senior year, but I’m planning on getting into communications and media studies. In a world with constant advancements in nearly every field, with humans making progress on a daily basis, how can one stay rooted to their passions and not get deterred by the choices of others while still being open and accepting of others? So, the question like in in all this change, and trying to adapt, how do you stay true to what you really want to?
00:27:52 Sascha Goluboff (She/Her): I think just, I would just briefly say that one of the things that you need to do is figure out what your values are and write them down, and then ask yourself if what you’re doing relates to those values that are important to you so, you can ground yourself in that.
00:28:09 Bruce G. Hammond (he/him/his): I would reference the ever present college university admission process. It’s a variation of the same thing. It’s about your voice, it’s about your identity. That’s what that whole process is about. And that’s why AI ultimately can’t really help you. I think AI people are, well, as AI going to write people’s personal statements for them. I wouldn’t rule out someday. But, right now it’s just not going to, it’s not going to be your voice. And so just forget it. That is not a good use. There are other good uses. Not that, so so I’m skeptical that anything’s going to replace the human the human perspective point of view values, all the things we’re talking about. And so, it’s going to force us really to turn back to what’s really important. And it’s just it’s just another tool that we can use.
00:29:04 Daniel Boulos (Pioneer Academics): Alright excellent. Well, with that we are just about at time. So, I want to thank you both. For a brief but lively conversation. I know I certainly enjoy hearing from you, as I hope those who are watching did as well. For those of you out there at the, at the summit on next up is the Programs Fair which you can enter through the virtual lobby that’ll be followed by the College Fair. Be sure to check out the swag bag feature where you can collect materials from each of the presenters at the Program Fair and College Fair. You’ll find that at the red bar, at the top of your screen, where you can collect documents and materials that the presenters put out. Apologies to those who had questions in the chat that we did not get an opportunity to answer. But once again, Bruce and Sasha thank you very much for being here, and thank you all for being here as well. Everyone have a great day! Thank you!
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